Application of Spey & Skagit casting principles to trout fishing on small and medium sized rivers

| Fly Fishing Devon | Application of Spey and Skagit casting principles

Roll Casting: Application of Spey and Skagit casting principles to trout fishing on small and medium sized rivers

One problem with overhead casting is that flies inevitably get caught in trees and bankside vegetation. This can be particularly frustrating on tree-lined Westcountry rivers. Therefore, as guides and instructors, we place emphasis on teaching our clients to roll cast.

For beginners teaching the roll cast takes place on small stillwaters with little in the way of bankside obstructions. But many people - who have mastered the 'static' roll cast - then have a rude shock when confronted with a river for the first time. Dealing with swirling currents and overhanging trees is difficult.

At first sight, the contents of this page may appear overwhelming. But the underlying message is very simple: It boils down to two fundamentals:
Do not rush your cast

Take care to position the 'anchor point' on the fly line to point at your target before making your cast

The roll cast has one fundamental weakness. The basic roll cast is not an efficient way to make large (i.e. > 30 degrees) changes in the position of the flyline on the water.

This page has some suggestions for overcoming this problem which involves adapting the techniques developed in other branches of fly fishing - in particular the family of casts referred to as Spey casts.

Spey Casting

Five years ago I made this comment on Silja Longhurst's Micro Skagit video: "Thank you for making this wonderful video illustrating how to cope with the problem of fishing relatively narrow rivers with overhanging vegetation. We have been encouraging anglers to use these techniques to meet the challenges of similar rivers running off Dartmoor (Devon, UK)." I urge you to view this video which shows what can be achieved by using techniques derived from Spey casting on our type of river.

Spey casting was developed to cope with situations where room to make a back cast is restricted by bankside vegetation.
Spey casts also allow the angler to make large changes in the position of the flyline on the water.

It is possible to Spey cast using single-handed trout rods (Gawesworth 2010). However, Spey casting was developed to meet the needs of salmon anglers who typically:
use a sunk or 'wet' fly

cast downstream and across

In contrast, trout fishers often need to:

present a dry fly

cast upstream and across
This page introduces a number of ideas derived from Spey casting to meet the special demands of trout fishing in confined spaces.

Problems and Principles

Conventional Spey casting is associated with salmon anglers wielding long two-handed rods on wide rivers.

Efficient Spey casting is based on several key principles:

avoid slack line during the cast

create a 'D' or '>' loop between the rod tip and the end of the line ('anchor' point) lying on the water

the anchor point should be in line with the target

according to the the 180 degree rule, the anchor point, D-loop and forward cast should all be in a straight line
Of course these principles also form the foundation of a good roll cast and therefore we teach our clients these concepts during introductory casting lessons before we expose them to river conditions.

However Spey casts involve complications which distinguish them from the basic roll cast:
The rod remains loaded throughout the cast

The fly line and rod are under 'tension' throughout the cast

the 'anchor' makes only brief contact with the water
For this reason Spey casts are called 'kiss-and-go' casts because they are performed with a minimal amount of line (anchor) kissing the water as the 'D' loop is formed behind the rod before the forward cast. It requires practice to develop the sense of timing needed to 'kiss' the water with the anchor before making the forward part of the cast.

Skagit casting

A new type of Spey casting -called Skagit - was developed for steelhead fishing in the Pacific North West of America. It is fundamentally different in important ways from traditional Spey casting:

The rod does not remains loaded throughout the cast

The fly line and rod are not under 'tension' throughout the cast

the anchor is allowed to come to rest on the water; the so-called 'waterborne anchor'

In Skagit casting there is a definite 'stop' after the 'anchor' has been 'set' on the water surface. For this reason Skagit casts are called 'flop-and-stop' casts. This is an important difference between Skagit casting and 'kiss-and-go' Spey casting. This benefits beginners who have learned to stop the rod after forming the 'D' loop during the basic 'static' or 'dead' roll cast. It also reduces the chances of getting caught up in overhanging vegetation.

Nevertheless, using Skagit or Spey-type casts to cast a dry fly upstream to trout on a small river presents a number of new challenges:

the fly line is swept back downstream towards the angler. This produces curves in the line. This slack causes a loss of 'tension' in the line at the start of the cast

the dry fly may become waterlogged if the angler drags the line across the water surface to set up the 'D' loop before making the forward cast

on a narrow river, short casts with only 10-20 feet of fly line may not 'load' the rod sufficiently to produce an effective forward cast

Combining Spey & Skagit Casts

We have borrowed the following ideas from Spey and Skagit casting to address these issues:

the concept of a 'waterborne anchor' from Skagit

the 180 degree principle from Spey

How can we deal with the problem of the fly line being swept downstream and the fly becoming waterlogged as the angler forms the 'D' loop?

We use the phrase 'line parking area' to describe an area of relatively shallow, slow moving, and often unproductive water lying alongside an area of deeper water which holds trout - the 'fish holding area'.

Because the current is slow moving you can safely 'park' the line here whilst your take a few upstream steps as you progressively fish up a pool.

The 'line parking area' is also used to set up the 'waterborne anchor' prior to the forward casting stroke

These two pictures illustrate the position of a 'line parking area' alongside a 'fish holding area'.


These pictures were taken from the perspective of an angler looking upstream. An area of deeper water beneath the bank on the left holds good-sized trout. The area of shallower and relatively slower moving water on the right holds few fish. The next two pictures show - from the angler's perspective - the position of the fly line in the parking area and after it has been cast into the fish-holding area.
Line-Parking-Area	Fish-Holding-Area

The fly line has been extended into the line parking area ...	then the fly is cast into the fish holding area
The line parking area can be used to 'park' the fly line as the angler slowly works upstream. This avoids the problem of the fly line being swept downstream which inevitably leads to a waterlogged dry fly.
The Line Parking Area It turns out that the 'line parking area' can be used to overcome the other problems associated with using Spey-type casts to deliver a dry fly upstream. The line parking area can be used for several purposes, to: increase the amount of line outside rod tip straighten the fly line in order to restore line tension prior to making a cast make an overpowered roll cast with a 'hard stop' to dry a waterlogged fly false cast to gauge the amount of power required to make an effective cast with an under-loaded rod Perform these preparations prior to delivering the fly into a fish holding area. Another way of describing the 'line preparation area' is to think of it as the 'kitchen' where you prepare the trout's food (fly), before delivering it to the trout's 'dining room'. Try to avoid making unnecessary casts into the 'dining room / fish holding area. Often the first presentation in the 'dining room' is the most successful at eliciting a rise from trout. Excessive casting into the holding area can spook fish.
Positioning the Anchor Before making a roll cast to send the fly into the fish holding area you must reposition the 'anchor point' - i.e. the end of the fly line lying on the water surface. It is important to avoid waterlogging the fly by dragging it through the water during this manoeuvre. I find that lifting as much line off the water prior to sweeping the rod downstream to position the 'anchor point' keeps the fly dry. This downstream sweeping movement is similar to the 'Pirouette' in Spey casting. Think of the fly as a ballet dancer on tip-toes lightly moving across the surface of the water. Keep your eye on the position of the fly as it swings round in front of you Stop the fly as soon as it is on the line between you and the target Make the forward cast upstream of the position of the fly. This avoids crossing the fly line which creates a tangle. Try to avoid pausing too long after you have formed the 'D' loop before making your forward cast. The current will move the fly line towards you. This removes tension from the line and creates curves in your line which reduce the efficiency of your forward cast. To overcome these problems slide the line towards you faster than the speed of the current.

Of course the fish holding area may be on your right as you move upstream. These two pictures show the relative position of the two areas when the fish holding area is located on the angler's right hand side. Make sure to carefully position the anchor point so that it points at the target before making the forward cast. Do not make your forward cast over and across the fly line. Failure to observe this simple point will result in a crossed line which tangles the fly and leader.
At the end of the drift the fly has passed through the fish holding area	and must be positioned in the line parking area before being cast again into the fish holding area. The Snake Roll is a good cast to use for this purpose.

As the fly drifts downstream through the fish-holding area, gently pull line through the rings to maintain contact with the fly. Avoid jerky or long pulls that could create unnatural drag on the fly. Then when you have returned the fly line to the line parking area, shoot this retrieved line into a roll cast before making your next cast into the fish-holding area. Keeping Things Simple In the restricted environment of a small river you may not be able to execute 'classic' Spey casts. Just remember the principles of Spey casting. Remember that the line will follow the path of the rod tip. You can manipulate the rod tip using techniques developed by Spey and Skagit casters (single and double Spey, snake roll, circle Spey, Perry Poke etc.) to position the anchor point and 'D' loop so that they are in line with the target - this is the 180 degree rule. You can pause to check the position of the anchor point and 'D' loop before preparing to cast into the fish holding area / 'dining room' because you are employing the Skagit concept of a 'waterborne anchor' to load the rod for the forward cast. You can simply roll cast again into the line preparation area / 'kitchen' if you are not happy to proceed with aligning the anchor point with your target. Use the line preparation area / 'kitchen' to lengthen or shorten the amount of fly line outside the rod tip. Use the line preparation area / 'kitchen' to dry a fly by casting with a hard stop to drive water off your fly.

Get out of jail cast

Try to avoid letting the line and fly drifting downstream of your position.

If you find that your line has drifted too far downstream, you can use a Water Haul cast, or Snake Roll cast gets you out of this situation.

You may find that your fly is now waterlogged and tends to sink. Dry your fly by making repeated roll casts into the line parking area. Overpower and use a 'hard stop' on the forward cast to drive water from your fly.

This may cause your line to fall in curves. Simply make a roll cast to straighten the fly line before casting into the fish holding area.

Coping with a tricky situation The next photographs illustrate a potentially tricky situation. The right-handed angler is casting upstream to fish that are lying to the left under a canopy of overhanging trees. The line is carried downstream on the angler's left hand side. The angler could make a roll cast over their left shoulder but take care to avoid getting caught in overhanging branches Another solution is to raise the rod as the line is carried downstream and then make a Snap-C or Snap-T cast to position the anchor point to the right of the angler.


Proceed upstream carefully The next two pictures illustrate a situation where good trout may be found (in area B) towards the head of a pool just upstream of a prime line parking area. You can often pick up a good fish by paying careful attention to your fly when you place it into a parking area for the first time.


The Downstream Line Parking Area As you reach the head of a pool you may find that the line parking area is now downstream of your position. You can still utilise the functionality of the parking area. At the end of the drift this right-handed angler can use a snake roll to place the line in the parking area, followed by a cast over their left shoulder to send the fly back to the fish holding area which runs along the opposite bank.

Of course the idea of a 'downstream line parking area' is not new. Wet fly anglers are advised to step downstream after the line reaches the dangle. Teaching change of direction using a 'flop-and-stop' Skagit-style cast Sometimes it is easier to have anglers facing downstream when introducing them to the concept of the 'line parking area' and principles derived from Skagit and Spey casting. In this example the angler has been shown how to make a 'flop-and-stop' Skagit manoeuvre to reposition the flyline. The photographs below show a common problem faced by beginners fishing a wet fly 'down-and-across'. The angler wants to present her fly to fish lying under the trees on her right hand side. She cannot use an overhead or side cast because of vegetation behind her. A roll cast is the answer in this situation. However, once her line has swung around in the current and is hanging straight downstream, she will need to reposition the line so that she can make another cast beneath the trees. If she simply roll casts in the direction of the trees on her right the line will cross itself and tangle. The video clip shows how we have taught her to change the direction of her roll cast to deal with this dilemma.

In order to change the direction of her roll cast the angler: lifts her rod tip to break surface tension on the line sweeps the line and fly horizontally to her right which aligns the 'anchor' with the target lifts the rod vertically to form a 'D' loop & faces the target makes a forward cast Notice how these moves are made slowly and smoothly to maintain line tension and ensure that fly, line and 'D' loop are all in line with the target.

The next series of photographs shows an alternative technique which has the advantage of allowing a large (90 degree) change of direction to facilitate a drag free drift along a fish holding area in front of the angler. We call this approach "Small Stream Skagit Casting".

#1. The fly and line is lying downstream of the angler ...	#2. ... she uses a Snap-C movement (not shown) to position the line and fly upstream of her right shoulder. She then creates a D loop behind her right shoulder ...	#3. ... and makes a roll cast that sends the fly to the fish-holding area against the far bank. Note the large change (90 degrees) in the position of the flyline between pictures# 1 and #3.

An unresolved problem

Earlier I pointed out that on a narrow river, short casts with only 10-20 feet of fly line may not 'load' the rod sufficiently to produce an effective forward cast. Many years ago, I contacted Bruce Richards - Chief Line Designer for 3M/Scientific Anglers - to seek his advice.

Here is our exchange of emails on this issue:

I am writing to request help with choosing a line to use when Spey casting with short single-handed trout rods.

I fish on small - often heavily bushed - rivers running off Dartmoor in the west of England. In American terms these would be classed as freestone creeks and rivers. Because these waters are relatively narrow, casts tend to be short (with a maximum of 20 feet of fly line outside the rod tip). I use a 7’9” AFTM#5 (Orvis ‘Far & Fine’).

I have a suspicion that a 5 weight line is not loading the rod sufficiently for effective Spey casts. A simple solution might be to ‘overline’ the rod with an AFTM#6 line. But the thicker front taper could compromise presentation. My understanding - after reading the literature on Spey casts- is that weight needs to be concentrated in the belly that forms the ‘D loop’.

I have a mental kinaesthetic 'image' of what I am looking for - the rod should feel partially loaded when I form the 'D' loop; I should be able to feel the weight of the belly dragging down the rod tip. One possibility would be to use one of your Skagit lines; after all the Skagit style was developed to deal with the conditions I encounter - restricted room for forming the 'D' loop. However - the 'Spey Skagit DeLuxe' AFTM#6 weight specification sheet indicates that the belly starts 19.5' from the tip because they are designed to be used for long casts with longer rods and 27' of line outside the rod tip.

Do you market a range of lines with fine front tapers and relatively heavy bellies that would be suitable for short range Spey casts with short single handed rods? I guess this type of line may be in development given the increased interest in Spey casts Thanks for any help you can give.

Paul Kenyon

Bruce Richards replied as follows:

Mr. Kenyon,
Thank you for your inquiry.

Your analysis of the line needed for single hand spey casting is correct. Typically when spey casting with single hand rods casters find that going up 2 line sizes gives the best result.

In a couple of weeks we will be introducing a series of Skagit style lines specifically for use with standard single hand rods, but I don't think that is what you want. You indicate that presentation is still important, and most Skagit style lines are designed primarily for casting either with sinking tips, or a floating tip that is designed to throw weighted flies and indicators. If your goal is to fish dry flies with a reasonably delicate delivery a Skagit style line is probably not the right choice.

I would suggest using a 7 wt. line with as delicate a front taper as possible. I would suggest a WF (or DT) -7-F Mastery Trout line. The extra weight of the 7 wt. belly will load your 5 wt. rod properly, and these lines are designed for dry fly fishing and will have as delicate a delivery as any 7 wt. you will find. I think you will find that this line would give you the best results for what you are trying to accomplish. If you have further questions please let me know.

Regards,
Bruce Scientific Anglers/3M

A word of caution

Note that Bruce Richards suggests using a Mastery Trout line which is "a 7 wt. line with as delicate a front taper as possible". Take care that you not overload the rod by trying to cast more than 20 feet of AFTM#7 fly line on a rod rated for AFTM#5. Also proceed with care if you use any other brand of line. Snowbee offer the following advice to help avoid rod breakage: Never use a fly line more than one line weight above the rod's rating.

Update - 2022 - Complexity, Confusion & Controversy

We live in interesting times. In the years since I wrote to Bruce Richards, there has been an explosion in fly-fishing tackle and techniques. And, not unexpectedly, there are a variety of options and opinions. These videos are useful because you may pick up something that suits your fishing situation, as well as things that don't apply, in which case you will avoid going down expensive, in terms of time and money, blind alleys.

These videos from David Pham discuss:
rods and fly lines for Single-Handed Spey Casting: A Beginners Guide (The Equipment)

Fly lines for Spey casting Here's what lines work and why

This video from Peter Charles Single Hand Spey Casting: Learn the Single Spey offers a different point of view, especially on fly lines.

Here is an interesting video from Nansen Bamsen How to make a "Air Snake Roll" which is described as a "Perfect cast to change direction with a dry fly."

Another solution to the same problem: The Dry fly Speycast

The Belgian Cast is a constant-tension cast that copes with the problem caused by trying to cast a heavy fly (e.g. a beadhead) with a conventional cast.

Here is a simple principle to increase the accuracy of an Overhead Cast that can also be used to increase the accuracy of a Roll Cast.

I've also noticed a blurring of the distinction between Euro-Nymphing and the Dry-Dropper techniques, for example: Fishing Dry Dropper on a Euro Nymphing Leader

In this video Paul Gaskell (who has introduced Tenkara to a wide audience) describes how he fishes the Dry-Dropper.

George Daniel explains an important difference between the Dry-Dropper and Euro-Nymphing rigs. The "purpose of using a dry-dropper rig is to fish towards the top of the water column" whereas the Euro-Nymphing rig uses weighted flies that target fish feeding at the bottom of the water column - article available here Daniel 2021.

In this article Domenick Swentosky explains why he dislikes using the Water Haul to cast Euro-Nymphing rigs.

I's worth keeping an eye on Tenkara developments. In this article Matt Sment discusses the importance of line tension, and the position of the rod tip in controlling 'fly movement'; Soltau's fly-fishing technique involved moving a dry fly - a practice that was later abandoned under the influence of Halford.

About the author

Paul guiding ITV News reporter in June 2019

with sea trout in camera range ...

Paul Kenyon lives in Ivybridge on the southern edge of Dartmoor about 6 miles from the Upper Yealm Fishery.

He retired in 2006 from the Department of Psychology, University of Plymouth where he lectured in behavioural neuroscience and evolutionary psychology.

He now devotes more time than is reasonable to his love of all things associated with fish, fishing, instruction and guiding on Dartmoor rivers.

Paul is the author of a series of web-based essays on fly-fishing: The Heuristic Trout

email paul@flyfishingdevon.co.uk

The author's YouTube channel

References

Gawesworth, Simon (2010). "Single-Handed Spey Casting". Stackpole Books, Mechanicsburg, PA.

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